The Tepid Seat - Rare Music Team

Answers: Robin, Grant, Dave W, Dave C, Steve, Jamie, Eveline and Martin - December 2004 Q: Hey guys, to start off I'd just like to say that the music in Rare games has always been the best around, it's great stuff. My question to you Music Peeps in the Tepid Seat is: "Does it take a long time for you to come up with the different music tunes in any of your games, and which game's music has taken you the longest to produce so far?" and also "Is it hard to find all the different sounds that you add to the music, especially in the Banjo-Kazooie games?".      Luke Robinson Grant: Hello Luke. The amount of time it takes to think up a piece of music can vary. When a designer first tells you what he wants I normally get an idea of the style straight away. The actual composing (for Banjo-Kazooie) probably took a couple of days per piece. Then we decided to add all the MIDI channel fading and I had to go back through them and add the various different versions, e.g the underwater fade for the levels with water. The instrument selection was mostly stuff I sampled from existing synth modules. Obviously I had pretty tough memory restrictions, so it was a case of making the best of what I could squeeze in! Q: First off, Rare's musical prowess leaves me speechless. The consistent quality of your audio department must make other developers jealous... the only other video game music that can compare, in my humble opinion, is Yuzo Koshiro's Streets of Rage trilogy soundtrack. Obviously, you seem to be influenced by all genres of music, but who are your favorite artists (other than yourselves...)? I detect a stong influence by Eric Serra for a lot of your more mature, atmospheric music.      P.S. Major respect to the one behind the DJ Mummy in GbtG. So funny!      Nick Danger Dave C: I tend not to listen to much video game music (believe it or not!). The people who have had the most impact on me from a creative point of view have been Brian Wilson, Jimi Hendrix, Miles Davis, and Grant Kirkhope. Not necessarily in that order though. Robin: Here's mine: Carl Stalling, Miles Davis, Danny Elfman, John Williams, Hans Zimmer, James Horner, Jerry Goldsmith, Christopher Young, Howard Shore (even before he did LOTR), Wynton Marsalis, Marc Shaiman, Frank Zappa, Steve Vai, It Bites (probably one of the greatest bands that ever were/are as they are reforming), Clark Terry, Mark Isham, Nicholas Payton, Roy Hargrove and Thomas Newman.   Q: The first thing I'm sort of interested in is what the shortest and longest development time each of you have had for a song, if you can remember. I know it varies depending on the person and/or the song. The most recent song I've made only took eight hours, when the longest I can recall took longer than two weeks. Although, I have some projects on my hard drive that have been sitting for a few months ;)      Secondly, what kind of nice toys do you have in your sound studio? ;) Are there any preferences to how a song is made? For instance, how much of a song is manually clicked in with a mouse (if at all), played through a MIDI keyboard, or played live? I guess a combination of the first few would be likely -- I kind of like the precision of using a mouse and clicking down notes. And mostly because I can't keep a beat that well :P      Jay Robin: For me, the initial idea for a song is what usually takes the largest amount of time. It can take a few days to get an idea that I'm totally satisfied with. After that the rest is relatively quick, filling in the other parts takes a day or two. I generally play the music into Cubase using a MIDI keyboard. For faster parts I might do it at half speed then increase the tempo afterwards. Steve: Depends on how complex and long the tune needs to be. If it is a big epic theme that lasts for about four mins, then I'd aim to get it finished within a week. Mostly I like to finish a tune in two to three days (by then I've usually got a backlog of sound effects to get done, so I can't spend much longer).      An important part of my studio setup is the master keyboard (music, not QWERTY!), a Fatar SL880 which is weighted 88 note like a piano. I always use this to input the notes as I'm a pianist and find this the most musical method. I usually setup a click track and play along to the metronome sound, building up track by track with each instrument in Cubase. For the large scale tunes I use around 80 MIDI tracks to get a big sound. I'd often quantize the percussion, but the rest stay in as they've been played. This really helps make it sound more musical for orchestral stuff. Dave C: 1. Shortest took about four minutes. The longest, about a month. Nobody liked the one that took a month.      2. We have a drum kit. That's the best toy. You can bash it really hard and make good noises.      3. You cannot play music with a mouse. We like to use real instruments now, wherever possible; however even music that's played on a MIDI keyboard is still live, if it's played well!   Q: Hello Mr. Wise! How and when did you start working at Rare? I know you've been there since the early NES days, but when exactly? Few games had credits back then. And how did it come about? Was composing videogame music the job you wanted to do from the start?      Were you ever in a band? What "regular" bands do you listen to? Any that have touched you in a particular way? Any recommendations to someone who enjoys your work?      How does it feel to no longer be restrained by inferior hardware? Does it feel good or did you enjoy the challenge of working with the NES/SNES/etc.?      That should do it. And please know that rarely a day goes by without me listening to one of your soundtracks, mainly DKC2, DKR, DKC1 or Battletoads stuff. It touches me *that* much.      Jean-Marc Dave W: When: 1985. How: I was working in a music shop demonstrating a Yamaha CX5 Music Computer to a couple of people, Tim & Chris Stamper. I'd written and programmed the music for the demonstration material. They offered me a job.      From the perspective of being at college, I had absolutely no idea what I was going to do for a job. At that time I wanted to write and play music; it's what I enjoy most. I liked playing in a band, but didn't want to become a superstar, so to speak. At the same time I wanted my music to be listened to by as many people as possible. So composing videogame music fitted my predicament very well.      I still play in a band. I listento and enjoy literally all sorts of music. My favourite band were The Police. As for recommendations: anything that's good!      I always enjoy a challenge. No longer being so restrained is also a challenge.   Q: How is it to make music on the Xbox? Is the different big between the N64 and the Xbox? And how close do you work together with the develop team, and do you get enough honor if a game turns out to be great? Anyway keep up the good job guys.      Braeckman Sander Robin: Xbox rules - we can concentrate on (live) performance as opposed to trying to fit it in memory   Q: Banjo's music has to be some of the best for any game or movie ever. As we all know, a simple tune which was first introduced to us in the intro was repeated over and over level by level, but never ever got boring as it changed the instruments and tempo level to level. The same catchy tune was seen all over the place and each time had me singing the jingle even when I wasn't playing the game. Whose idea was this? I salute you.      Also - what is your team's overall favourite track? I have to say mine is Kameo's Once Upon a Time - dear lord, the game's worth buying just for that...      Matthew Grant: Hello Matthew. The designers on Banjo (or Dream as it started out) heard the music I'd done for GoldenEye and liked the way I'd used the Bond theme in different ways and asked me to do some stuff for Dream. I started writing music and gave each character a theme of their own (similar to the way it's done in opera). Then the game got changed to Banjo and I had to start again. The MIDI channel fade thing sort of grew out of that. So I'm not sure whose idea it was... mine!      The Kameo tune's not one of mine, you've got Steven to thank for that one! Steve: Yip, that Once Upon a Time track is one of mine. Glad you liked it! I think that track was used as part of some Kameo demo a while ago. The theme pops up now and again throughout the game. It’s fun writing these type of tunes as it sounds a bit different from other game music out there. The music to Kameo is very diverse and I’ve tried to make the soundtrack as original as I can, so hopefully you’ll enjoy the end result.   Q: When it comes to making music for types levels done in games before I assume it's pretty easy to do. (Such as underwater levels.) But how hard is it to do stages that haven't done in a game before? An example would be the Hornet Hive stages of DKC2 fame. At that time, there hadn't really been any levels of its kind yet the DKC2 musicians pulled off a track that fits the feeling of being in a beehive with dripping honey perfectly. Is it really easier said than done?      Ness554 Dave W: I think matching up music to levels is where most of the skill is involved. If we've managed to make it sound as though it was easy, well that's a job well done.      Sometimes, making something sound easy and obvious has been the hardest part of the process. I had no idea what the underwater level should sound like. How do you write something that sounds as though you're struggling to stay afloat? Or a beehive dripping in honey? The experimentation is all part of the fun of writing music.   Q: When voices were used in Conker's Bad Fur Day, was it the music team that was responsible for the work on that, or a different team like the sound effects people?      Tom Rees Robin: Music team? Yes, I suppose, if you count one person as a team... Q: Why is/are Rare/the composers always referred to as 'bods' or something similar? We never get to hear from them as themselves, and we always have to have some sort of assumed knowledge to know who is talking about what. Musicians are people with names! Does Robin agree that more attention should be paid to the Rare soundtrack albums? Let's get an insert with some info and the composer's name on the cover for crying out loud.      Okay, and the Jet Force Gemini music is in my top three game music soundtracks ever. And pretty close to being some of my favourite music of all time. I know that wasn't a question, but I have to express my pathetic nerdy-ness.      Mustin Robin: Yes I agree, I'm a big believer in credit where credit's due, not just for the composer but for the musicians who perform on the pieces too.      Keep your eyes peeled for future CD inlays… say no more!   Q: How do you get your ideas for your music? Video games have been coming out now for a while, and all the possible themes that could be thought up have been used. Yet, music producers still find a way to create a new piece that sticks. What type of creative process goes into this? And also, what do you have to know to get into a profession such as the music team?      Jeff Steve: Hello Jeff. I usually start writing a piece of music for the game after seeing what the level is like, is it action/mysterious, etc. and from a few descriptive words from the designers as to what they had in mind. Then it's a case of sketching out a theme with Cubase SX (music sequencer) to structure the music, and then orchestrating it with the instruments I think work best. After I've written the whole thing using samplers and sound modules in my room, I will often book the recording studio we have here at Rare and record musicians on top of the MIDI-based tracks. That's the usual process. As for where I get my ideas, well, it's usually trial and error and lots of coffee. Nothing beats the buzz you get as a piece comes together from starting with nothing at all.      As for getting into the game music profession, for me I came from classical music background. I got my Bachelor and Masters degrees in music composition, then worked for two years as an assistant to a film composer in London where I did lots of score preparation, orchestrating, setting up recording sessions, etc. It doesn't really matter what musical background you have though, as long as you can write a good tune and in lots of styles (and quickly!). At Rare I split my time equally between composing music and creating sound effects. Dave C: 1. Sometimes it's hard to come up with original music, without creating something that's so far out that nobody but another musician will want to hear it! The best way to keep fresh is to listen to lots of music that you wouldn't normally listen to. You can often learn a lot that way. Think you hate country music? Get some Johnny Cash and think again!      2. You have to know a hell of a lot about music for starters. Music is a lifetime of hard study, and it can be one of the least financially rewarding professions there is. Now where did I park my Lamborghini?   Q: I've always enjoyed your magnificent works, and I'd like to ask, were there ever some music themes that you made but were cut for whatever reason? What comes to mind are the 16 original levels of B-K, and if any of the music made for them was merged or cut or even ported to another game.      Cyberen Grant: Hello Cyberen, I've got quite a lot of pieces that didn't make games for one reason or another. Some of the Dream stuff made it into Banjo-Kazooie and I think some of it made it into DK64 as well. But usually music is written for a very specific situation so on the whole it just gets dumped!   Q: Hey you guys! I've always been wondering... why do you have to use MIDIs in the video games instead of actual recordings of people playing the songs with instruments? Also, what type of MIDI program(s) do you use?      RdCrestdBreegull Dave W: I guess this is a question as to why we use MIDI in preference to streamed audio. With regard to Star Fox Adventures, it was purely a case of using available resources to best effect, bearing in mind these are shared with graphics and gameplay mechanics. In-game we used MIDI to keep the processing and disk access to a minimum. However, we mainly used streamed audio for the cutscenes. Dave C: We use both. Incidentally, a keyboard can use MIDI, but it is still an instrument that requires someone to play it. Jamie: I am a Game Boy musician so using MIDI is my only option. The reason for this is because MIDI files take up very little space in terms of memory on the game cartridge. An average MIDI file would be in the order of 15 kilobytes and the instrument samples will take up around 1Mb. One minute of uncompressed audio is about 5Mb (mono) which is more than the entire budget for audio on most GBA games! The programmers and artists wouldn't be too happy if I used actual recordings as there would be no space left for the game!      I use Cubase, a midi sequencing program to compose the tunes which is linked to a software sampler called Gigastudio. I use Soundforge to process the samples to be used in-game.   Q: The question that kept haunting me for ages is why wasn't David Wise the one who composed the music for DK64??? I know he was the creator of the WONDERFUL DKC trilogy music... so exotic, so atmospheric... DK64 was spoiled with the cheesy cartoonish music of Mr. Kirkhope. I'm not saying he's not a great musician, in fact he did a great job with the Banjo series. But I really missed David's taste on the N64. What happened there!?      José Abboud Dave W: I really don't know. But thanks for your kind comments. Grant: I'm just going outside to jump in the pond.   Q: What exactly are the procedures you've gone through to redo the N64 sound effects, voices and music of Conker's Bad Fur Day for the Xbox? And how can I expect it to sound on a surround sound system?      Piti Robin: All the tunes have been redone, in most cases with the addition of live instruments and vocals/choir. All the single player sound effects are at a high sample rate (high quality) as I was dead clever and kept the original recordings on the off chance I might need them again for a day when they would fit on a console that would be able to accommodate them.   Q: I found it pretty nifty that you Rare folks used VSL for GBTG. Did you use this library for SFA as well? Out of curiosity, what do you guys use for your harpsichord sounds? If you wanna be really nice and satisfy my curiosity, you could tell me all of the major libraries you use, but of course, you don't have to.      TheStandingMan Dave W: For Star Fox Adventures, I used the Advanced Orchestra Library as the VSL was not available at this time. We have the advantage of being able to use many great sample libraries, so we draw our samples from many sources.   Q: To Grant Kirkhope: are you self taught or are you schooled in music? What has been the hardest task you've has to accomplish as a composer at Rare? When you applied at Rare, did they care at all about the High School grades or did they just listen to your demo tapes?      How are musicians picked for a game, are they assigned a team and stick with that team or are your names drawn out of a hat? (P.S. The perfect games musician would be Grobin D. Kirkland! A conglomeration of Robin, David, and Grant!)      Justin Dawdy Grant: Hello Justin, I obtained a degree from the Royal Northern College of Music in classical trumpet, but I'm a self-taught guitar player and very poor pianist!      Hardest task, hmmm... probably trying to get all the audio to fit into GoldenEye. It certainly caused myself and Graeme Norgate a few headaches! The MIDI files were the worst as we had to work out if any bars of music that any instrument played were repeated, then only have them in the piece once with the number of times to be repeated written into them (if you get my drift). This meant that if you came back to the piece for any reason it was a right pain trying to work out what was going on!      Rare just listened to the music when I applied (mind you, I did send in five tapes over the course of a year before I got a reply!). We still work this way today. It doesn't matter how well you are educated in music... if you can't write a good tune, all the degrees in the world ain't gonna make a difference.      Generally musicians stick to the same team. When I first started I was given DK2 on the Game Boy to do, then GoldenEye, then I was kidnapped by the Banjo mob and I've been there ever since.   Q: Nobuo Uematsu (Square-Enix) and Koji Kondo (Nintendo) are regarded highly as the two greatest composers in video game music. What are your thoughts on that?      What do you think about game companies bringing in outside sources (i.e. rock and R&B groups) to record music for games? I find that today's game composers are taking a backseat to the hottest bands in the music industry and all I see from that is good, original talent, going to waste. Does something like that pose a threat to your job?      Uptown SlimJim Dave W: The two you mention are both great musicians who have obviously been very influential in defining video game music. As for your other question, I look on this in the same light as film soundtracks. The music is there to support the story. If a piece of music from a band supports the action perfectly, great, use it. However, it's probably not going to work too well supporting something that requires a little more subtlety, such as progressing the story. Many films use both. Jamie: I'm a fan of both composers, particularly Koji Kondo. His music is so simple yet memorable and always suits the game style perfectly. I thought the Wind Waker soundtrack was great, especially the Dragon Roost Island theme!      As for bands in games... I think it's OK to feature artists that suit that a particular genre, e.g. rock/punk/rap in snowboarding games, but for story-based games the music helps define the characters and immerse the player in the game world. Here at Rare we have a musician per game which enables us to write music and customise it to match the game perfectly. I don't think this would be possible using well-known bands. Dave C: Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis are highly regarded as the two greatest boxers of all time. What are your thoughts on that?   Q: I too am a musician and I hope one day to become a professional composer for whoever may need my services. The only tool I have that enables me to put my talents to use is a little sequencing software program for my PC called Fruity Loops. I was wondering what programs do you use and what it involves. I don't doubt that you have access to a high end, state of the art studio, or pretty close to it, but whatever it is, I know it's better than what I have at my fingertips. If there are computer software programs that you use often that you would recommend that are excellent, by all means, help a brotha out!!      JC Dave W: I personally use Steinberg Cubase SX. It records audio, plays back virtual instruments and has loads of great audio effects to enhance your production. They have different versions such as SL for a more limited budget, but essentially the technology is the same. Digidesign Pro tools is also a very good product, with many versions to suit different budgets. Q: I am a huge Banjo/Conker fan, and would like to know the following things.      1a) How on earth did you guys do the Boss Music for Banjo-Tooie?      1b) Is the 'Hag-1' tune a Bossed-up version of the Cauldron Keep tune?      2) What techniques do you lot use to create Boss tunes from Start Menu themes? A good example of this is the 'Baron 2' tune.      Thank you for answering these questions and keep up the excellent work!      Yuri_fan Grant: 1a) Erm… I sat in a darkened room and waited for a blinding light of inspiration to descend from the heavens… not really. I like to write big melodramatic tunes that are a bit tongue-in-cheek and Bosses are always a good opportunity to do this.      1b) Not really, it's a standalone piece.      2) The Grabbed by the Ghoulies main theme was a bit of a joke melody myself and a couple of the artists used to sing. When I was trying to come up with a melody that could be used throughout the whole game I thought I'd give a go and it worked! The Baron2 tune is loosely based on 633 Squadron, since the Baron was in a plane I thought it would be fun to parody a classic World War II film piece.   Q: This is to all of the excellent musicians at Rare: have you guys ever considered releasing unused tunes on, say, a personal website? I know that you might have to get permission from the company, but would you do it... please?      Paul Gasca Steve: You're right, I doubt we'd get permission to do this as the music belongs to Rare. There is good chance at least some would go on the company website.   Q: I'm intrigued about sound quality some of the earlier N64 titles you've composed tracks for. Downloading the MP3s from the website, the music sounds to be of a slightly higher quality than in the games themselves? Is this the case or are my TV speakers just worse than those on my PC?      Also, even if they do match up, when you compose the music, does it sound just like the final product or do the various compression and tracking compatibility issues mean that you can't go for the exact sound you start with?      Pete Robin: I think it's your TV speakers!      In the 'old' days you started out with something completely different to what you ended up with, now there's "no no no no no no no no no no no no there's no limits"... except for disc space and memory, that is.   Q: Hello, this is my first time ever writing Rare, although I have been browsing the site and playing the games since 1994. I was wondering - what is David Wise working on nowadays?      I loved the Donkey Kong Country music, but after those games, I basically stopped reading up on current events. Also, who currently leads the music team, if there is one particular leader?      Thanks for your time. Oh yeah, one last question; has Mr. Pants ever been a respected member of society? Seems to me that if he wore just a bit more, he'd be quite the man.      Erik Dave W: I'm now working on a game for Xbox and a revamped version of DKC3 for Game Boy Advance.      Robin Beanland heads up the music department.   Q: Is it true that Grant uses Eddie Van Halen's own guitar to do his guitar tracks?      John Silke Grant: Hello John, it is true. I used to play trumpet for a band called Little Angels many years ago (cough!). We were the opening act for quite a few of the big rock bands of the time. We toured with Van Halen and became friendly with them, especially Eddie Van Halen (Eddie is one of the nicest people you could wish to meet). One day he took me to one side and said here's a guitar... I nearly fell through the floor! Needless to say it's my pride and joy and I use it for all the guitar tracks I do.